Newbie

Discussion forum for Tawbaware's PTAssembler software, Helmut Dersch's Panorama Tools software and any other photography related software

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pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Newbie

Post by pietopper » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:03 pm

I am evaluating this program for use, but I have hit a roadblock almost immediately.
I am attempting to create a panorama from 5 images. I know that a satisfactory result is possible, because I have done it in Photoshop. I set the control points manually, and attempted to create a preview panorama. It created a rectangular shape divided into four blocks by a vertical and a horizontal line. The block is in two shades of blue. Nothing else. When I try to create the full size panorama, it gives the message "Error: The output from the stacking program cannot be found".

I am using PTAStitcher and Enblend and Enfuse. Nothing else, I am just trying to keep things simple for now.

I will confess that I am an impatient person, and not very technically minded, so I stopped reading the extensive documentation when I saw the some of it was out of date and some of it was contradictory and some of it was redundant.

I would appreciate some help.

maxlyons
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Post by maxlyons » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:10 pm

pietopper wrote:I will confess that I am an impatient person, and not very technically minded, so I stopped reading the extensive documentation when I saw the some of it was out of date and some of it was contradictory and some of it was redundant.
Can you post at least the first two items listed in the "Bugs and Problems" section of the PTAssembler documentation?

Thanks,

Max

pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by pietopper » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:40 am

I tried to upload the .ptp file to this forum, but phBB does not allow files with .ptp, .txt, .doc, or no extensions at all. I stopped experimenting at that time. (Using Chrome on Windows XP).

Instead, you can find the file in my DropBox, here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vccqi9ftvg7qfmh/b1-b5.ptp
I am trying to run PTAssembler on a Windows XP (up to date) computer with 4 GB of memory.

Here is the "Check Installation" info:

====== PTAssembler 6.0.2 installation check ======

Core Panorama Creation Programs appears to be installed correctly...all required files were found.

*** Core Panorama Creation Program Versions ***

1. Optimizer Program:
C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PTAStitcher.exe (x86)

2. Stitcher Program:
C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PTAStitcher.exe (x86)


*** Core Panorama Creation Program File Dates ***

Optimizer: PTAStitcher.exe created on 2012/08/27 11:39:44 PM
Stitcher: PTAStitcher.exe created on 2012/08/27 11:39:44 PM

*** Optional Plugins / Helper Programs ***

NeatImage not installed
GreyCStoration not installed
Autopano not installed
Autopano SIFT not installed
GenerateKeys not installed
Panomatic not installed
Autopano SIFT C not installed
Enfuse (x64) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PanoTools\Enblend\bin\enfuse.exe. (2012/11/25 12:32:23 PM)
Enblend (x64) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PanoTools\Enblend\bin\enblend.exe. (2012/11/25 12:32:23 PM)
Smartblend not installed

*** PTAssembler components ***

PTAssembler (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptasmblr.exe. (2012/08/27 11:37:42 PM)
ptastitcher.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptastitcher.exe. (2012/08/27 11:39:44 PM)
ptassembler.dll found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptassembler.dll. (2012/08/27 11:39:44 PM)
imgformt.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\imgformt.exe. (2012/08/27 11:38:20 PM)
tufuse.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\tufuse.exe. (2012/08/27 11:38:16 PM)
sbwrapper.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\sbwrapper.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:14 PM)
sbiterator.exe not installed
tiffcrop.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\tiffcrop.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:14 PM)
tiffconform.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\tiffconform.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:14 PM)
tiffxfer.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\tiffxfer.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:14 PM)
ptaexec.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptaexec.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:12 PM)
ptacopy.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptacopy.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:18 PM)
ptadel.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptadel.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:18 PM)
ptarecycle.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\ptarecycle.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:12 PM)
shutdown.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\shutdown.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:12 PM)
msgbox.exe (x86) found at C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\msgbox.exe. (2012/08/10 07:06:12 PM)

*** Environment Information ***

C:\WINDOWS\system32\MSVBVM60.DLL: version 6.00.9802 : 2008/04/13 07:12:00 PM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEAUT32.DLL: version 5.1.2600.6058 : 2010/12/20 12:32:15 PM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEPRO32.DLL: version 5.1.2600.5512 : 2008/04/13 07:12:02 PM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ASYCFILT.DLL: version 5.1.2600.5949 : 2010/03/05 09:37:40 AM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\STDOLE2.TLB: version 5.1.2600.5512 : 2008/04/13 10:42:06 AM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\COMCAT.DLL: version 5.0 (XPClient.010817-1148) : 2001/08/23 07:00:00 AM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\comdlg32.ocx: version 6.01.9782 : 2004/03/09
C:\WINDOWS\system32\mscomctl.ocx: version 6.01.9834 : 2012/06/06 07:59:42 PM
C:\WINDOWS\system32\tabctl32.ocx: version 6.01.9782 : 2004/03/09

System directory: C:\WINDOWS\system32\
Application data directory: C:\Documents and Settings\Piet\Application Data\PTAssembler

Temporary Directory: C:\DOCUME~1\Piet\LOCALS~1\Temp
Total Space: 127.99 GB
Available Space: 41.05 GB

System Processor Count: 2

And here is the ptasmblr.ini info:

====== C:\Documents and Settings\Piet\Application Data\PTAssembler\PTAsmblr.ini ======

[General]
Version=6.02
ZoomFactor=2
ControlPointFrequency=100
PTStitcherLocation=C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PTAStitcher.exe
PTOptimizerLocation=C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PTAStitcher.exe
TemporaryDirectory=C:\DOCUME~1\Piet\LOCALS~1\Temp
TempScriptName=PanoTools_Script.txt
PreviewViewer=iexplore.exe
threadPriority=64
ImageWindowVertical=True
Radius=5
DrawWidth=3
PreviewPercent=20
AugmentFactor=1.05
JPEG_Quality=90
AutoScrollSet=1
MarkerType=1
ShowScreenTabs=0
ShowToolbar=1
ScreenTabPosition=1
CloseUpFollowsCursor=1
ShowWizard=1
RecentlyUsed_1=G:\Lightroom Photos\San Francisco\Panorama\Untitled-b-Untitled-f.ptp
RecentlyUsed_2=G:\Lightroom Photos\Panoramas\Angel\b1-b5_0001.ptp
RecentlyUsed_3=G:\Lightroom Photos\Panoramas\Angel\b1-b5_0002.ptp
RecentlyUsed_4=G:\Lightroom Photos\Panoramas\Angel\b1-b5.ptp
showAdditionalCPInfo=0
ShowCPDistanceOnImages=1
showMicroPositionAmountOnImages=1
showImageNamesOnControlPointTabs=0
RepositionControlPoints=0
repositionControlPointRadius=7
microPositionT1T2ControlPoints=False
repositionWithoutPrompting=0
setRollForAllImagesEqualToReferencePoint=0
thinCount=5
viewerMagnificationFactor=0.5
autoSizeListViewColumnWidths=True
croppedTiffOutput=1
croppedFinalOutput=1
useSystemDefaultViewer=1
useInternalPreviewViewer=1
launchFinalImage=1
previewViewerWidth=0
previewViewerHeight=0
previewViewerLeft=0
previewViewerTop=0
previewViewerShowCPs=1
previewViewerShowImageBorders=0
previewViewerShowLongLat=0
refPointPickerWidth=0
refPointPickerHeight=0
refPointPickerLeft=0
refPointPickerTop=0
antiAliasPreview=0
antiAliasOutput=1
cameraParamsWidth=0
cameraParamsHeight=0
cameraParamsLeft=0
cameraParamsTop=0
[Advanced]
ScrollAmount=3
AutoSizePaddingFactor=1
AutoSizePaddingFactor2=1
MaxRecentlyUsedProjects=10
ZoomWindowOffset=-120
ZoomWindowCircleRadius=10
zoomWidthSmall=800
zoomHeightSmall=800
AutoOptimizerInstructions=opyaw, opyaw_oppitch, opyaw_oppitch_oproll, opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opb
ControlPointFontSize=16
AutoRegenerateMorphToFit=True
useShortFileNames=False
moveCursorToLikelyPosition=True
[Plugins]
autopanoLocation=
autopano_arguments_103=/keys:20 /size:1500
autopanoSiftLocation=
generateKeysLocation=
autopano_sift_arguments=--ransac on
generateKeysDownscaleResolution=0
panomaticLocation=
panomaticArguments=
autopanoSiftCLocation=
autopanoSiftCArguments=--ransac on
enblendLocation=C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PanoTools\Enblend\bin\enblend.exe
enblend_arguments=-a -v -m 300
smartblendLocation=
smartblend_arguments=
smartblend_iterator_image_count=24
tufuse_arguments=-p 2
enfuseLocation=C:\Program Files\PTAsmblr\PanoTools\Enblend\bin\enfuse.exe
enfuse_arguments=--compression=DEFLATE
combinezLocation=
combinez_arguments=
blendingSoftware=0
autopanoSoftware=0
preProcessingSoftware=0
stackingSoftware=0
neatImageLocation=
neatImageProfileLocation=
neatImageFilterPresetLocation=
greyc_location=
greyc_alpha=0.8
greyc_sigma=0.5
greyc_p=0.8
greyc_a=0.8
greyc_iter=1
greyc_dt=50
[LastUsed]
LastUsed_FOV=180.03
LastUsed_LensType=0
LastUsed_a=0
LastUsed_b=-0.016734
LastUsed_c=0
LastUsed_d=0
LastUsed_e=0
LastUsed_g=0
LastUsed_t=0
LastUsed_OutputProjection=2
LastUsed_FileFormat=14
LastUsed_InterpolatorQuality=1
LastUsed_FocalLengthMultiplier=1
LastUsed_postProcessingCmdLine=
[Misc]
m_line_extra_parameters=
controlPointSettingOption=0
maximizeAtStartup=0
minimizePTAStitcherMemoryUse=0
focalLengthMultiplier=1
overRideEXIFFocalLengthMultiplier=0
checkForPTAStitcher=1
processorCount=0
rawConvertedWidth=3519
rawConvertedHeight=2345
extractEXIFFromRaw=0
removeIntermediateFiles=0
recycleIntermediateFiles=0
removeInputFiles=0
[AutoCreate]
autoCreateFOVMethod=0
autoCreateDefaultFocalLength=38
autoCreateDefaultMultiplier=5
autoCreateAutoSave=1
autoCreateFailThresholdSetting=0
autoCreateFailThresholdAmount=5
autoCreateAutopanoKeyCount=20
autoCreateFirstThinCount=14
autoCreateOptimizeString1=opyaw_oppitch, opyaw_oppitch_oproll
autoCreateOptimizeString1b=opyaw_oppitch, opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opv
autoCreateSecondThinCount=8
autoCreateSecondThinMedianRatio=1.5
autoCreateThirdThinCount=5
autoCreateOptimizeString2=opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opb, autolevel, autoroll
autoCreateOptimizeString2b=opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opb, opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opb_opv, autolevel, autoroll
autoCreateOptimizeString3=eqyaw, opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opb
autoCreateOptimizeStringAlign=opyaw_oppitch_oproll_opv
autoCreateDefaultOutputProjection=1
autoCreateDefaultOutputFormat=1
autoCreatePerformStacking=1
[GPS]
gps_search_app_dir=False
gps_search_project_dir=False
gps_search_image_dir=True
gps_search_custom_dir=True
gps_custom_directory=c:\gpsdata
gps_file_extension=gpx
gps_local_utc_time_offset=14400
gps_exif_utc_time_offset=14400
gps_trackpoint_interpolation_method=0
gps_map_url=http://maps.google.com/maps?t=h&q=%lat%,%lon%
gps_time_ignore_threshold=60
gps_elevation_units=0
gps_populate_when_saving=False
[projection]
projectionSqueezedRectilinearHorizStart=45
projectionSqueezedRectilinearVertStart=45
projectionSqueezedRectilinearHorizAmount=1
projectionSqueezedRectilinearVertAmount=1
projectionCompressedRectilinearYawFactor=1.3
projectionCompressedRectilinearPitchFactor=1
projectionRectilindricalYawFactor=0
projectionRectilindricalPitchFactor=1
projectionRectiPerspectiveYawFactor=2
projectionRectiPerspectivePitchFactor=1
projectionRectiCylindricalTransitionStart=40
projectionRectiCylindricalTransitionEnd=50
projectionUserDefinedXPos=YAW
projectionUserDefinedYPos=PITCH
projectionUserDefinedYaw=XPOS
projectionUserDefinedPitch=YPOS
projectionHybridQuadrant1=1
projectionHybridQuadrant2=0
projectionHybridQuadrant3=0
projectionHybridQuadrant4=1
projectionCylindricalEqualAreaStandardLatitude=45
projectionCylindricalEquidistantStandardLatitude=45
projectionCylindricalExFactor=0
[optimizer]
optimizerFTol1=0.05
optimizerFTol2=0.000001
optimizerMaxFev=0
optimizerStrategy=0
optimizerMetric=1
optimizerPause=0
optimizerCameraYawPitchScaleFactor=10
optimizerCameraXYZScaleFactor=100
optimizerLensabcScaleFactor=100
optimizerLensFOVScaleFactor=10

I did not get a message on the screen regarding temporary files.

Thank you for your assistance.

maxlyons
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Post by maxlyons » Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:16 pm

Thanks for posting this information.

Looking at the project file without the images (i.e. without knowing how the images ought to be arranged), it is hard for me to know what a "correct" project file would look like. However, your project file contains 5 images, but only 2 of those images have control points assigned to them. This means that PTAssembler can work out how 2 (out of the 5) images should be positioned relative to each other, but cannot determine the appropriate position of the other 3 images.

I also see that the images have been assigned stack IDs. Perhaps PTAssembler assigned these because it noticed that the yaw, pitch and roll parameters for many of the images are almost identical (which is usually a good sign that the user wants to stack the images). Or maybe you assigned the stack IDs manually? In any case, unless you want to stack the images, it is probably best to unassign the stack IDs for all images. (Select images on Step 1, right-click, then use the "Stack"->"Remove selected images from stacking group" menu items).

On the Step 2 screen, I see that the lens is specified as a rectilinear lens with a FOV of 180 degrees. I suspect that this is probably incorrect. If you know the FOV or focal length/multiplier for your lens, then you can enter the correct values on step 2. It looks like your images don't contain EXIF data (or if they do, it is in a format that PTAssembler couldn't understand), which would explain why PTAssembler may not have been able to automatically determine the FOV for your lens.

I can also see that the images are all slightly different sizes. PTAssembler can accomodate this, but not in its "automagic" mode (i.e. by using the "autocreate" button). If all of the images are different sizes, then they almost certainly have different FOVs, which means that you'll need to "unlink" FOV on the Step 2 screen and specify the FOV independently for each images. However, your images are not too different in size, so perhaps you can get away with a single FOV value for all images, and the error will be negligible.

Can you post the images, and we can take a further look? Or, can you explain what you are trying to do and how you got to where you are? For example, creating a focus-blended stack of 5 images is quite a different objective from assembling a horizontal panoramic image from 5 partially overlapping images, and the advice we can give will differ.

Lastly, I have spent quite a lot of effort to try and make the documentation complete and useful, so if you could point me to the areas that you thought were "out of date...contradictory and...redundant", I would be grateful and make a note to update/correct it.

Thanks,

Max

pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by pietopper » Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:05 pm

Thanks for the quick reply.

I put the five images in my DropBox here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/i9y4z2ms7u5bdlj/EG8XkpL8DN and also the assembled panorama that I constructed from them with Photoshop. I was hoping to get a similar result and then compare quality and processing effort. Also of course, to use it as a first learning exercise.

I did not intend to stack anything, and I did not assign stack id's

I did attempt to manually assign control points to each pair of images. I assigned 5 control points to each pair: 1&2, 2&3, 3&4, 4&5. So, 20 control points in all.

I did not attempt to mess with things like FOV, or specifying the lens, or any of that. The images were scanned from 35mm transparencies, and cropping off the black frame probably accounts for the slight differences in sizes. The original photos were also hand held, so there will be all kinds of variations in level (pitch?).

All I was attempting to do was to stitch a horizontal panorama with those five photographs.

The caution about Autocreate is noted.

I will go through and note some of the issues with the documentation for you, no problem.

Thanks again!

johnh
Posts: 2118
Joined: Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:43 pm
Location: UK
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Post by johnh » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:02 pm

I did this stitch of your images with PTAssembler - it's certainly better than your Photoshop stitch: http://tinyurl.com/d8s5nmq.

John

pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by pietopper » Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:20 pm

John, I accept that. The problem is that I am not able to do it at all.

maxlyons
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: USA
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Re: Newbie

Post by maxlyons » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:51 am

Like John, I was also able to create a panoramic image:

Image

The project file from my image is here.

I also created a video that shows how I used PTAssembler to create the final result with these images.

I hope this helps.

Max

pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by pietopper » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:08 am

We are making good progress, and I am learning a bit. I followed Max's video religiously, and I am getting a good result in preview.

However, when I attempt to create the final (full-size) panorama, it proceeds through the DOS window, but then presents: "Error: Output from blending program cannot be found."

As noted before I installed and configured Enblend.

Appreciate the help from everybody.

pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by pietopper » Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:48 pm

This thread http://tawbawar.ipower.com/forum2/viewtopic.php?p=29788 seems to explore the same issue pretty thoroughly, but without coming to any specific recommendations...

maxlyons
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Post by maxlyons » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:17 pm

pietopper wrote:...when I attempt to create the final (full-size) panorama, it proceeds through the DOS window, but then presents: "Error: Output from blending program cannot be found."
The most likely explanation is that the Enblend failed to produce output. Because Enblend is independent from PTAssembler, PTAssembler can't determine what went wrong. All PTAssembler knows is that it started Enblend, but didn't find the output that it expected. What version of Enblend are you using?

Here are some things to try:

1. Remove all command line arguments that PTAssembler passes to Enblend (on the Blending Program Configuration screen). At the moment it looks like the arguments are "-a -v -m 300", which limits Enblend to using no more than 300 MB of RAM. That could be a problem.

2. If Enblend still doesn't work, I would try and determine if Enblend can run correctly when run directly from the command line (i.e. totally independently of PTAssembler). You can output a series of TIFF files from PTAssembler (using the Multiple image TIFF format on the Step 5 screen), and then use those as input to Enblend, running Enblend directly from the command line.

3. You could also try using Smartblend instead of Enblend.

Hope this helps,

Max

BuckeyeYank
Posts: 58
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:13 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by BuckeyeYank » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:37 pm

Very nice - thanks for putting the video together. I learned about some options I didn't know existed.
BuckeyeYank

maxlyons
Posts: 3649
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 8:55 pm
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: Newbie

Post by maxlyons » Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:40 pm

BuckeyeYank wrote:Very nice - thanks for putting the video together. I learned about some options I didn't know existed.
Oh good! I have been thinking about doing some video tutorials for a while. I'd be interested to hear if others would find them useful.

Max

pietopper
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:45 pm

Re: Newbie

Post by pietopper » Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:57 am

maxlyons wrote:
pietopper wrote: Here are some things to try:

1. Remove all command line arguments that PTAssembler passes to Enblend (on the Blending Program Configuration screen). At the moment it looks like the arguments are "-a -v -m 300", which limits Enblend to using no more than 300 MB of RAM. That could be a problem.

2. If Enblend still doesn't work, I would try and determine if Enblend can run correctly when run directly from the command line (i.e. totally independently of PTAssembler). You can output a series of TIFF files from PTAssembler (using the Multiple image TIFF format on the Step 5 screen), and then use those as input to Enblend, running Enblend directly from the command line.

3. You could also try using Smartblend instead of Enblend.
Max
I am using the latest version of Enblend
I had already tried #1, both with a (much) higher limit for RAM, and also with no parameters at all. No difference in result.
I am not interested to get into command lines, etc, as proposed in #2. In any case, the knowledge gained is unlikely to move me forward, and the thread I pointed to earlier seems to indicate that I run the danger of getting more and more bogged down into deep technical stuff.
#3 turns out to be an excellent suggestion, and that is what I did, successfully.

Thank you, everybody, for your help.

Terrywoodenpic
Posts: 376
Joined: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Saddleworth England

Re: Newbie

Post by Terrywoodenpic » Wed Nov 28, 2012 8:07 am

maxlyons wrote:
BuckeyeYank wrote:Very nice - thanks for putting the video together. I learned about some options I didn't know existed.
Oh good! I have been thinking about doing some video tutorials for a while. I'd be interested to hear if others would find them useful.

Max

Excellent Idea and very useful

I think the resolution of the Vidios could be higher as I could not read all the screen data

Regards Terry
Terry

old decrepit and still taking photographs

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